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 Post subject: What if i don't wish to identify with british english?
 Post Posted: Wed May 22, 2013 3:44 pm 
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That is, what i'm referring to is that the word "warrior" is an english word. What if i want to identify with another term, that "isn't english"? i have one in mind. Starting to think i should come up with some creative approach to subverting the "warrior" label.

Yes, yes, i KNOW that many/most Indigenous nations revere the idea of "warrior" in their communities, and it's not mostly about war or even close. But i maintain that be uncritically accepting these types of terms we do a dis-service to ourselves and our desires (what we truly seek in this life!).

So that's where i'm at. i want to escape a trap :mrgreen: that i see in using the word "war" in "warrior", and change it instead to one i get to define.

Wouldn't it be nifty (tee-hee) if we all got to use the words we wanted in order to describe ourselves?

Or, in this forum, this is what we get, period? :cry: :oops:

i am an ORrioR, not a WARrior! :P (so much for changing my name to chaz d. ziNg, eh? heH)

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my path has included quite a few daring physical and psychological challenges....From this, i have learned other ways beyond WAR; ask me about being an ORrioR, a confrontationally nonviolent tactic.


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 Post subject: Re: What if i don't wish to identify with british english?
 Post Posted: Wed May 22, 2013 9:02 pm 
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Great Eldar Shaman
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afraid of a seven letter word....




easy target wrote:
That is, what i'm referring to is that the word "warrior" is an english word. What if i want to identify with another term, that "isn't english"? i have one in mind. Starting to think i should come up with some creative approach to subverting the "warrior" label.

Yes, yes, i KNOW that many/most Indigenous nations revere the idea of "warrior" in their communities, and it's not mostly about war or even close. But i maintain that be uncritically accepting these types of terms we do a dis-service to ourselves and our desires (what we truly seek in this life!).

So that's where i'm at. i want to escape a trap :mrgreen: that i see in using the word "war" in "warrior", and change it instead to one i get to define.

Wouldn't it be nifty (tee-hee) if we all got to use the words we wanted in order to describe ourselves?

Or, in this forum, this is what we get, period? :cry: :oops:

i am an ORrioR, not a WARrior! :P (so much for changing my name to chaz d. ziNg, eh? heH)

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ollan xolatl


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 Post subject: Re: What if i don't wish to identify with british english?
 Post Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 10:20 am 
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I agree with moving away from the term "warrior", it is after all, a foreign word. We all have words in our own respective languages, to describe what today is labelled as a warrior. It is a bit ironic, since our "warrior"s' job was to keep the peace. Im not sure what my peoples' word for it is, but the Nuu-chah-nulth call them Wit-wok. There is another word for the "wolf society", whose membership was largely secret, but who sprung into action whenever justice needed to be handed out. For example, if someone behaved violently toward fellow clan members, one day they might be grabbed and punished. Nobody would know exactly who had done it, but they knew that the wolf society was responsible. I think, however that if we start using our proper indigenous names for these people, the names are likely to be appropriated, and subsequently diluted... :(

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 Post subject: Re: What if i don't wish to identify with british english?
 Post Posted: Tue May 28, 2013 8:36 pm 
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Great Eldar Shaman
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i think its better to stay with english.

it reaches a much larger audience and is generally

accepted in most native communities north of the mexican border.

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 Post subject: Re: What if i don't wish to identify with british english?
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:49 pm 
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English is the new Chinook. When I move to a different territory, I make an effort to learn a little of the local Aboriginal language. At the very least, I learn a greeting and how to say "thank you". It's a great way to build bridges with the local Native culture, and opens a gateway to almost limitless learning. This also provides the opportunity to learn the local word for warrior, and using that!!

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 Post subject: Re: What if i don't wish to identify with british english?
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 9:19 pm 
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Whatever the decision of the admin here, miigwetch!

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my path has included quite a few daring physical and psychological challenges....From this, i have learned other ways beyond WAR; ask me about being an ORrioR, a confrontationally nonviolent tactic.


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 Post subject: Re: What if i don't wish to identify with british english?
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 1:46 pm 
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Your choice of words is important, and a matter of personal choice. Just as much as identity. It's true that language can have more significance than just learning how to order food in a restaurant. There are legal concepts and concepts of identity that are conveyed by a language. For example, how could you describe the intent of a ceremony if you didn't have the words to describe it? How would you describe a concept like "freedom" if there were no word in the language for it? One could end up misinterpreting and undermining an intent.

That's why the lose of language is such a threat. Indigenous peoples could lose ancestral meanings and concepts which describe much of what makes them different. Many "western" concepts are actually absent in Ingebenous thought. Ideas like rights, equality, and freedom are concepts that may be abscent in some Indigenous languages... and thus their cultures. In that light, there are alternate ways of relating to each other and the world that are different from what we're often taught to think.


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 Post subject: Re: What if i don't wish to identify with british english?
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 11:22 pm 
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LaxXsinDjihl wrote:
I think, however that if we start using our proper indigenous names for these people, the names are likely to be appropriated, and subsequently diluted... :(


Thank you.

The way i see appropriation is something different that what seems to be "developing" (heh) in the mindsets of people stuck in dichotomy.

i think of informal "appropriators" vs formal appropriators. i think of Waziyatawin challenging that kind of characterization. And yet i still think in terms of promoting response ability.

The informal side of settler interaction with your culture is part of our need to find and re-create who we are and why we are here. We "try things on", feeling them out kind of thing. We listen to you as fellow human beings by this method, largely self-taught, largely filled with what are called "neuroses". We "pick up" stuff that appears meaninful to us.

We construct "coats of many colors" in this way (reference from Dolly Parton song), and it helps us survive. It helps us thrive.

We get stuck in how we've been enslaved, how we've been stuck. In settler mentality. In Alienation Unlimited (a metaphorical company i'm making up to convey stuff). Thus we need to truly think about this, and i thank the various people whom have spoken up and i have heard it.

i sidestand with you about the need to wake up the horse people.

(pssst: pass it around: https://awakeningthehorse.wordpress.com/ )

And i have other truths that i must speak, so dont take it personally unless you have to. Or something like that.....

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my path has included quite a few daring physical and psychological challenges....From this, i have learned other ways beyond WAR; ask me about being an ORrioR, a confrontationally nonviolent tactic.


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 Post subject: Re: What if i don't wish to identify with british english?
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 11:34 pm 
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KASCII wrote:
(....)
That's why the lose of language is such a threat. Indigenous peoples could lose ancestral meanings and concepts which describe much of what makes them different. Many "western" concepts are actually absent in Ingebenous thought. Ideas like rights, equality, and freedom are concepts that may be abscent in some Indigenous languages... and thus their cultures. In that light, there are alternate ways of relating to each other and the world that are different from what we're often taught to think.


Wow, something to chew on, and reflect on. Maybe it will sink into me well enough here for me to remember it, heh.

When i think right off about peoples losing meanings and concepts, i think of "too many" settler-stuck people, and i think about us sharing these evolutionary words, and i think of the other shapes of the Earth (besides human beings) getting tired of listening to we settler-challenged folk who likely sound like "gobbledegook" so much. They heard some of the words, but it's all missing a comprehension.

Is that what you mean?

Methinks, right off, that those other shapes of the Earth will be very very happy to finally hear people who know the languages!


And then "on the other hand", i think it is okay. So maybe i need to think more on this?

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my path has included quite a few daring physical and psychological challenges....From this, i have learned other ways beyond WAR; ask me about being an ORrioR, a confrontationally nonviolent tactic.


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 Post subject: Re: What if i don't wish to identify with british english?
 Post Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2016 11:46 am 
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 Post subject: Re: What if i don't wish to identify with british english?
 Post Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 3:17 pm 
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LaxXsinDjihl wrote:
I agree with moving away from the term "warrior", it is after all, a foreign word. We all have words in our own respective languages, to describe what today is labelled as a warrior. It is a bit ironic, since our "warrior"s' job was to keep the peace. Im not sure what my peoples' word for it is, but the Nuu-chah-nulth call them Wit-wok. There is another word for the "wolf society", whose membership was largely secret, but who sprung into action whenever justice needed to be handed out. For example, if someone behaved violently toward fellow clan members, one day they might be grabbed and punished. Nobody would know exactly who had done it, but they knew that the wolf society was responsible. I think, however that if we start using our proper indigenous names for these people, the names are likely to be appropriated, and subsequently diluted... :(



Ah, i think i see more clearly now. And if i'm not repeating myself (maybe that's GOOD), i feel like saying a little more.

i honor world Indigenous use of the term "warrior", and yet i see the problems. And yet maybe these are problems that we have to go through and not just try to avoid? (you probably don't 'get' what i'm saying....)

As for Wolf Society "punishing" people? I think that's a game that many world Indigenous folks are finding themselves entrapped in, not seeing just how smooth and sly neocolonial realities are.

i say this because my understanding is that "punishment" (and all we tend to think of when we use this word) is a foreign way of allegedly "solving problems".

World Indigenous peoples thrived for thousands of years because of the power of their solidarity --truly solving difficulties, and letting previously unrecognized truths be spoken and shared freely (tho often within the protection of communal lodges, i.e. Wolf Society Lodges).

But settler cult-ures don't want people to be strong. They want the masses of the people to be as stupidized and weak as possible, so that they (the "masters") can continue to exploit their trust and render the spirit of Their People (their slaves) into a "Tamed" spectrum (a.k.a. freedumb). All for reasons that they Believe (absolutist in a religious sense) Are The Best Way To Do Things.

i think that there's another thing to think through: When Indigenous societies have acted more intensely. That is a crucial one: When. When/as --the settler project was coming/is still coming down on world Indigenous peoples and imagination, Indigenous peoples have been FORCED to leave their ideals and go with "pragmatism".

So, for at least 500 years now, "pragmatism" has come to the fore for many world Indigenous folks. And so i think many elders pass these ways onto their next generations. It happens. People are not "perfect", people have been under heavy duress for a long time. So they make mistakes.

The beauty that survives, still, in my limited estimation, is that the truly daring can still stand up and challenge these realities. And people will "hear you out". It is not easy to do, given all the various pressures being deployed (allegedly "scientifically"), but world Indigenous ways still have that possibility. And that is the draw for many people, i think.

Sure, we whom dare speak our truths, no matter what, may get killed in the process, or we might get Beat Up, but there remains, still, despite all the work to block and crush and "develop" world Indigenous folks into Happy Slaves (er, Citizens), a memory of the beauty and excellence of listening, truly listening to all those whom feel called to stand up.

What do you/others think?



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my path has included quite a few daring physical and psychological challenges....From this, i have learned other ways beyond WAR; ask me about being an ORrioR, a confrontationally nonviolent tactic.


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