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 Post subject: One for Smee, one for LaxXsinDjihl
 Post Posted: Wed May 22, 2013 3:36 pm 
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Warrior
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Smee, i think you said this:
Quote:
I mean available without any requirement of effort or show of sincere interest on the part of whoever gets the information.


Yes, i think i get what you say. Publishing makes intelligence available to "just anyone", while, say, designing our own publishing ways lets us learn that lesson and gift our penchance for writing with more intention.

LaxXsinDjihl wrote:
I don't think the obscurity approach necessarily means NEVER speaking of these trees. Much like medicinal knowledge, or occult knowledge, it is kept within lineages. Within those boundaries, much discussion and learning can happen. It's only with the outside people, that one NEVER brings this knowledge up.
Unfortunately, our territories are under constant attack. This forces us to find alternative means of protecting these trees, lest our code of silence be for naught.


One alternative means of protecting these trees:

Helping unsettlers (or at least we who claim the desire and show it in ways that interest you) take their social challenges into the sacred places where they may do something along the lines of the text below (published for Earth Day a few years back):

Quote:
Art Succeeds Aiding Forest Resurgence

Local loggers at a forest near you were literally and figuratively stopped in their tracks of late thanks to steps taken by locals in bringing their creative intelligence away from coralled locales and back out into indepth relevance.

“Loggers have actually begun wearing the ideas shared by their kids and wives, that, in every forest, it is worthwhile to set aside portions, sometimes numerous portions, where the forest can re-enchantify itself fully,” said an unnamed spokesperson for the spokespersons speaking group of cascadiahh.

Via recent adoption (and re-adaptation) of so-called “no longer important”, or “old”, even often seemingly forgotten values, many people are beginning to recall the value and power that forests can help gift humanity; besides merely portions of their ‘wood’, or peoples (i.e. Elk).

“Thanks to a few ex-centric Europa’n persons who’ve begun experimenting with both their desires for escaping (and solving) all too heavily creeping alienation in their communities, and as well as the frame of reference inadverdantly modeled by the efforts of other occupied peoples, we’re seeing a new kind of ‘development’,” said Shurely Sarsasparilla of IntuitioN InternationaL, an unorganized group set up to help inspire world sanity, one human being at a time. Shurely is animated in her elation as she elucidates how folks are giving themselves permission to take their talents beyond the walls of their settlements and conventionalized belief systems.

“Folks are combining not only their ‘arting’, but also their altar-making desires, and the diversity is growing. And loggers (and other otherwise severely alienated professionals) can’t help but want to participate, too! So it’s a ‘Win/Win’ thang!”

An effect which is affecting even their bosses!

“The neat part about leaving one’s art (or altar intentions) in a forest that’s becoming enchanted again is that they [loggers] can relate to it. It’s not just their little kids’ drawings put up out there; in our local forest, we’ve inspired the locals teens to make up their own space, completely autonomous. So we groanups can’t enter unless we have their permission.”

Even the rowdy types have set up a “gallery” of sorts in this particular woods (we’ll honor these local folks by letting them have the option of telling you about where all this is, instead of just telling you all right now!).

The undercurrent in it all? Places for thoughts and feelings to be shared quite anonymously.

“You’ve heard of NPR’s ‘All Things Considered’? Well, this is on the path of ‘All People Considered,” said a local lady rather candidly. “This idea works in a circle; we help facilitate dialogue between diverse groups, and we bring attention to just how lovely a resurging forest can be! i mean, when’s the last time you spent a night breathing in the cool, fresh, healing air up in the woods, only to wake up to the sounds of the local folks [a.k.a. animals] singing and carrying on with so much zest?!”

HAPPY MOM EARTH DAY TO YA!!!


Art that goes with this text was too big (over 700 pixels wide) for this page, sooo, maybe you'll want to see it here:
http://visionary4evolution.files.wordpr ... listic.gif

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my path has included quite a few daring physical and psychological challenges....From this, i have learned other ways beyond WAR; ask me about being an ORrioR, a confrontationally nonviolent tactic.


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 Post subject: Re: One for Smee, one for LaxXsinDjihl
 Post Posted: Wed May 22, 2013 7:01 pm 
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easy target wrote:
Smee, i think you said this:
Quote:
I mean available without any requirement of effort or show of sincere interest on the part of whoever gets the information.
/quote]

Actually, I believe it was War Arrow who said that, not I.

No offense taken, just a clarification.

I have studied, I have asked assistance, and I have literally put boots on the ground (not as easy for this old man as it once was) to try to understand what I see. I know others who have done the same. I don't even ask for explanation any more, but I do show some things I find, and give very general location (as in you would have to work harder than I did if you follow my words to try to find them).

For instance "near the trail of tears in southwest Arkansas."

I don't say how near or far or what part of the trail ... or I may say on a piece of Federally protected land as I did with the face on the tree, where these things are protected, not by obscurity or knowledge, but simply by government ownership.

Someone here has questioned (in spite of my having answered them in the past that I am not) if I am a treasure hunter.

I know things, through observation. I know things through hands on experience ... I just may not know them accurately and I know that I don't know them completely. I can live with that, but I don't want to forget about what I have seen. I pass what I have learned on to my daughter who is usually with me in my treks.

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 Post subject: Re: "Protection By Obscurity". responses to 2 posts
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 11:58 pm 
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Responses for two people. First: Smee said:

but many who work in the woods do know what they are and go out of their way to destroy one when it is found.
--
wow. Someone should maybe do a documentary film about the psychology of people like this. Might be an approach.

Another one goes with my response below.


LaxXsinDjihl wrote:
Unfortunately, our territories are under constant attack. This forces us to find alternative means of protecting these trees, lest our code of silence be for naught.




i've been sharing an idea around one possible response. Inviting people to start to make community altars in the public forests. The chance to share creativity, the chance for that creativity to speak to other people in the community (if it is kept informal, not commandeered by professionals or corralled by politics). The more places for community members to share, the better the communication! Imagine!

And over time, people begin to feel more of a connection. In fact, such places become sacred, especially as such places are celebrated in diverse ways.

Imagine!


8)

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my path has included quite a few daring physical and psychological challenges....From this, i have learned other ways beyond WAR; ask me about being an ORrioR, a confrontationally nonviolent tactic.


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 Post subject: Re: "Protection By Obscurity".
 Post Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 3:54 pm 
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War Arrow wrote:
Smee wrote:
Here's a pic:
(....)
Personally I tend to agree, I think. Too much information is free these days, thus available to those who have not done the work necessary for its appreciation. By free I should probably stress that I don't mean 'available without someone getting paid', I mean available without any requirement of effort or show of sincere interest on the part of whoever gets the information.

If these trees were formed as you say, then that's something special that does not need to turn up in leaflet form for casual perusal by people who aren't really that interested in the first place.


Hey. i'm finding these kernels of truth powerful when i think of cultural appropriation. Thanks for helping me on this one!

On the other hand, who's to claim that others have Never done The Work Necessary? And who's to say that "people aren't really interested"? And, finally, who's to Declare (?) that passing out such info will Definitely Not (?) be liberating for someone?

iN a spiritual sense, i find myself needing to ask this question.

This is part of a grey area that i walk in. Wanting to think it through, care-fully, somehow. We are all tribal peoples, but of course, those whom have not largely been forced to forget everything--or most everything-- meaningful, are under intense pressures to Make Sure that the slaves (those whom have been rendered unable to see outside of their meta Prison Bars) don't wake up too meaningfully, Or Else.

Right? (of course, you need not answer)

To even discuss this on the trojan horse called the Internet, well, that's putting my life on the line as usual.

:mrgreen:

And yet i recognize the value, given these times.

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my path has included quite a few daring physical and psychological challenges....From this, i have learned other ways beyond WAR; ask me about being an ORrioR, a confrontationally nonviolent tactic.


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 Post subject: Re: "Protection By Obscurity".
 Post Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 4:01 pm 
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Smee wrote:
The theory of protection by obscurity needs to be revisited and a new plan conceived.


i think there COULD still be various ways to approach protection via mutualist strategies of enrichment.


This is, of course, already in the works in various places. Tho under different terminology, i'm sure.

Thoughts?

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my path has included quite a few daring physical and psychological challenges....From this, i have learned other ways beyond WAR; ask me about being an ORrioR, a confrontationally nonviolent tactic.


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 Post subject: Re: "Protection By Obscurity".
 Post Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 7:14 pm 
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easy target wrote:
Smee wrote:
The theory of protection by obscurity needs to be revisited and a new plan conceived.


i think there COULD still be various ways to approach protection via mutualist strategies of enrichment.


This is, of course, already in the works in various places. Tho under different terminology, i'm sure.

Thoughts?


Greetings.

The ones who went before left a mark on the places that were important to them. Some bent trees, some build rock cairns, some scarred (effectively "wrote on") trees while still others used more of what was available.

How many indigenous people today know why our ancestors did these things? I venture to say not many do, because, not only was it kept away from outsiders ... too often it was even kept from our own.

I'll not ask you the why, but do you know? Were you told what these meant? Which ones related to sacred sites? Which ones were just for marking direction?

I can understand keeping much of this away from outsiders, but why not let us know?

Sure, some would unscrupulous ones might share the information with outsiders. But then again, some already have shared these things with outsiders. Much of this was knows to whites in the 1800's. In the early 1900's there were numerous newspaper articles (I've researched this) where these trees were discussed. The trail of marker trees near Chicago that still existed at the beginning of the 20th century: the outsiders knew they marked the trail from one specific village to another. There are articles about "plaques" being placed on these trees to tell people about them. There are newspaper articles about vandalism of these marker trees.

So, explain to me once more so that I can understand why outsiders should know more about this than we do.

I really don't understand. They are already being destroyed by development. Whether because of not knowing what they are, or because of knowing what they are ... does the reason matter? They are disappearing. Many are dying as some I photographed have. They are already very old predating "the removals."

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 Post subject: Re: "Protection By Obscurity".
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 4:38 pm 
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Smee, i think others would be better respondents to this, than i.

The only thing i can think of is that "our own" and outsiders both often still have internalized the values of our programming. And i think traditionalists know this quite well.

To keep information away from those whom have not earned the knowledge is a power that makes sense to me.

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my path has included quite a few daring physical and psychological challenges....From this, i have learned other ways beyond WAR; ask me about being an ORrioR, a confrontationally nonviolent tactic.


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