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 Post subject: Re: Cannabis and the native people, where do you stand?
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 4:04 pm 
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High Chieftan

Joined: Tue May 26, 2009 9:15 pm
Posts: 1211
Location: Studio City, CA
Hi Smee,

You make a very good point. The only other way is to ingest it by eating something that has marijuana in it. So we are back to the problem of getting high. I hope there will soon be a way for people who really do need the properties of this plant to get it without the side effects of getting high.

Walk In Balance,
Deer


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 Post subject: Re: Cannabis and the native people, where do you stand?
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 6:07 pm 
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Great Eldar Shaman
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Nation: xolatl
firephynix wrote:

What I am wondering and hoping that you will all chime in on, is how do You as a native feel about cannabis?


i think its name and use should be normalized rather than the past fifty or so years of government demonizing its existence.

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 Post subject: Re: Cannabis and the native people, where do you stand?
 Post Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 3:06 am 
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Warrior
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I'm sharing this post from another forum I was on until I was banned...lol...they didn.t want me talkin to the trolls......sheesh... :roll: ...anyways heres some food for thought.


OK...I debated on putting Cannabis here however seeing as it,s debated everywhere else...what the heck...lol.
can·na·bis/ˈkanəbis/
Noun:
A plant (Cannabis sativa, family Cannabaceae) used to produce hemp fiber and as a mildly psychotropic drug.
A dried preparation of the flowering tops or other parts of this plant, or a resinous extract of it (cannabis resin).

While the debates go on and on over it,s legality I believe each has the right to make their own choices when using medicinally or for social entertainment. Just be informed.

General Remarks
There are marked differences in the knowledge on the medical uses of cannabis and cannabinoids in different diseases. For nausea and vomiting associated with cancer chemotherapy, anorexia and cachexia in HIV/AIDS, chronic, especially neuropathic pain, spasticity in multiple sclerosis and spinal cord injury there is strong evidence for medical benefits. For many other indications, such as epilepsy, pruritus and depression there is much less available data. However, the scientific evidence for a specific indication does not necessarily reflect the actual therapeutic potential for a given disease.

Clinical studies with single cannabinoids or whole plant preparations (smoked cannabis, cannabis extract) have often been inspired by positive anecdotal experiences of patients employing crude cannabis products. The anti-emetic, the appetite enhancing, relaxing effects, analgesia, and therapeutic use in Tourette's syndrome were all discovered in this manner.

Incidental observations have also revealed therapeutically useful effects. This occurred in a study with patients with Alzheimer's disease wherein the primary issue was an examination of the appetite-stimulating effects of THC. Not only appetite and body weight increased, but disturbed behaviour among the patients also decreased. The discovery of decreased intraocular pressure with THC administration in the beginning of the 1970s was also serendipitous. Additional interesting indications that have not been scientifically investigated, but remain common problems in modern medicine may benefit from treatment with cannabis or cannabinoids. For this reason, surveys have been conducted questioning individuals that use cannabis therapeutically. They were conducted either as oral non-standardized interviews in the course of investigations of state or scientific institutions (House of Lords Select Committee on Science and Technology in the UK, Institute of Medicine in the USA) on the therapeutic potential of cannabis or as anonymous surveys using standardized questionnaires.


Nausea and Vomiting
Treatment of side effects associated with antineoplastic therapy is the indication for cannabinoids which has been most documented, with about 40 studies (THC, nabilone, other THC analogues, cannabis). Most trials were conducted in the 1980s. THC has to be dosed relatively highly, so that resultant side effects may occur comparatively frequently. THC was inferior to high-dose metoclopramide in one study. There are no comparisons of THC to the modern serotonin antagonists. Some recent investigations have shown that THC in low doses improves the efficacy of other antiemetic drugs if given together. In folk medicine cannabinoids are popular and are often used in other causes of nausea including AIDS and hepatitis.


Anorexia and Cachexia
An appetite enhancing effect of THC is observed with daily divided doses totalling 5 mg. When required, the daily dose may be increased to 20 mg. In a long-term study of 94 AIDS patients, the appetite-stimulating effect of THC continued for months, confirming the appetite enhancement noted in a shorter 6 week study. THC doubled appetite on a visual analogue scale in comparison to placebo. Patients tended to retain a stable body weight over the course of seven months. A positive influence on body weight was also reported in 15 patients with Alzheimer's disease who were previously refusing food.


Spasticity
In many clinical trials of THC, nabilone and cannabis, a beneficial effect on spasticity caused by multiple sclerosis or spinal cord injury has been observed. Among other positively influenced symptoms were pain, paraesthesia, tremor and ataxia. In some studies improved bladder control was observed. There is also some anecdotal evidence of a benefit of cannabis in spasticity due to lesions of the brain.


Movement Disorders

There are some positive anecdotal reports of therapeutic response to cannabis in Tourette's syndrome, dystonia and tardive dyskinesia. The use in Tourette's syndrome is currently being investigated in clinical studies. Many patients achieve a modest improvement, however some show a considerable response or even complete symptom control. In some MS patients, benefits on ataxia and reduction of tremor have been observed following the administration of THC. Despite occasional positive reports, no objective success has been found in parkinsonism or Huntington disease. However, cannabis products may prove useful in levodopa-induced dyskinesia in Parkinson disease without worsening the primary symptoms.


Pain
Large clinical studies have proven analgesic properties of cannabis products. Among possible indications are neuropathic pain due to multiple sclerosis, damage of the brachial plexus and HIV infection, pain in rheumatoid arthritis, cancer pain, headache, menstrual pain, chronic bowel inflammation and neuralgias. Combination with opioids is possible.


Glaucoma
In 1971, during a systematic investigation of its effects in healthy cannabis users, it was observed that cannabis reduces intraocular pressure. In the following 12 years a number of studies in healthy individuals and glaucoma patients with cannabis and several natural and synthetic cannabinoids were conducted. cannabis decreases intraocular pressure by an average 25-30%, occasionally up to 50%. Some non-psychotropic cannabinoids, and to a lesser extent, some non-cannabinoid constituents of the hemp plant also decrease intraocular pressure.


Epilepsy
The use in epilepsy is among its historically oldest indications of cannabis. Animal experiments provide evidence of the antiepileptic effects of some cannabinoids. The anticonvulsant activity of phenytoin and diazepam have been potentiated by THC. According to a few case reports from the 20th century, some epileptic patients continue to utililize cannabis to control an otherwise unmanageable seizure disorder. Cannabis use may occasionally precipitate convulsions.


Asthma
Experiments examining the anti-asthmatic effect of THC or cannabis date mainly from the 1970s, and are all acute studies. The effects of a cannabis cigarette (2% THC) or oral THC (15 mg), respectively, approximately correspond to those obtained with therapeutic doses of common bronchodilator drugs (salbutamol, isoprenaline). Since inhalation of cannabis products may irritate the mucous membranes, oral administration or another alternative delivery system would be preferable. Very few patients developed bronchoconstriction after inhalation of THC.

Dependency and Withdrawal
According to historical and modern case reports cannabis is a good remedy to combat withdrawal in dependency on benzodiazepines, opiates and alcohol. For this reason, some have referred to it as a gateway drug back. In this context, both the reduction of physical withdrawal symptoms and stress connected with discontinuance of drug abuse may play a role in its observed benefits.


Psychiatric Symptoms
An improvement of mood in reactive depression has been observed in several clinical studies with THC. There are additional case reports claiming benefit of cannabinoids in other psychiatric symptoms and diseases, such as sleep disorders, anxiety disorders, bipolar disorders, and dysthymia. Various authors have expressed different viewpoints concerning psychiatric syndromes and cannabis. While some emphasize the problems caused by cannabis, others promote the therapeutic possibilities. Quite possibly cannabis products may be either beneficial or harmful, depending on the particular case. The attending physician and the patient should be open to a critical examination of the topic, and a frankness to both possibilities.


Autoimmune Diseases and Inflammation
In a number of painful syndromes secondary to inflammatory processes (e.g. ulcerative colitis, arthritis), cannabis products may act not only as analgesics but also demonstrate anti-inflammatory potential. For example, some patients employing cannabis report a decrease in their need for steroidal and nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs. Moreover there are some reports of positive effects of cannabis self-medication in allergic conditions. It is as yet unclear whether cannabis products may have a relevant effects on causative processes of autoimmune diseases.


Miscellaneous, Mixed Syndromes
There are a number of positive patient reports on medical conditions that cannot be easily assigned to the above categories, such as pruritus, hiccup, ADS (attention deficit syndrome), high blood pressure, tinnitus, chronic fatigue syndrome, restless leg syndrome, and others. Several hundreds possible indications for cannabis and THC have been described by different authors. For example, 2,5 to 5 mg THC were effective in three patients with pruritus due to liver diseases. Another example is the successful treatment of a chronic hiccup that developed after a surgery. No medication was effective, but smoking of a cannabis cigarette completely abolished the symptoms.

Cannabis products often show very good effects in diseases with multiple symptoms that encompassed within the spectrum of THC effects, for example, in painful conditions that have an inflammatory origin (e.g., arthritis), or are accompanied by increased muscle tone (e.g., menstrual cramps, spinal cord injury), or in diseases with nausea and anorexia accompanied by pain, anxiety and depression, respectively (e.g. AIDS, cancer, hepatitis C).

There are studies and case reports in the link below
http://www.cannabis-med.org/english/...use.htm#depend
The Emperor Wears No Clothes: The Authoritative Historical Record of Cannabis and the Conspiracy Against Marijuana
.If and when you really want to get serious about sorting out all the information, and misinformation, about the cannabis plant, its real dangers and beneficial uses, and much of the conspiracy to demonize marijuana in the United States and elsewhere, then there is certainly one book that absolutely must be on your personal list of resources; Jack Herer’s wonderful and widely respected tomb “The Emperor Wears no Clothes”.

In this book, now heading into its 12th edition printing, Jack Herer, widely known as the “Emperor of Hemp”, makes a very strong case for why the marijuana plant should be reconsidered as an easily renewable resource for food, energy, fabric, and medicine. Throughout its sixteen chapters, Herer points to not only myriad reasons why this plant should be immediately decriminalized, but also lays out the history of how an intentional government propaganda campaign had forcefully driven the courts to criminalize it in the first place.

Herer, born in New York City, and initially a Goldwater republican, actually started out as an avid prohibitionist, and reportedly even threatened to leave his first wife after finding out that she had smoked pot. Herer was a military policeman in the Korean War. Not exactly the stereotype of what one would expect for someone that ended up with such an insatiable passion for marijuana legalization. But that was destined to take a radical change. In 1967, Jack met a girl he liked that talked him into trying marijuana, and that was the beginning of his complete reinvention of himself, and his views about cannabis, and the willingness for the U.S. government to freely and intentionally misinform its own people.

This book, since its 1985 debut, has been updated to the eleventh edition, with the twelfth edition currently in the works to include the latest updates. Updates to current laws, by the way, that can at least in some significant part be attributed to the efforts of Mr. Herer in writing this useful and informative book. That’s also likely a big part of why this book has already sold over 700,000 copies. So if you really want the honest scoop on the history of marijuana in this country, replete with source citations throughout, this one is definitely a must have informational resource for you.
Here is a link for Jack Herer's Book
The Emperor Wears No Clothes
http://www.onlinepot.org/grow/jack1.htm

And also
Hemp Vs Cotton Debate
The most commonly seen modern hemp product is clothing. Hemp clothing is warmer, softer, more absorbent, extremely breathable and significantly more durable than clothing made from cotton; looks like linen, feels like flannel, and wears two to three times longer than other fabrics. Almost half of the agricultural chemicals used on US crops are applied to cotton. Using over 275 million pounds of pesticides annually (in the U.S), along with fertilizers, growth regulators and biocides, cotton is one of the world's most environmentally destructive crops. Hemp, in contrast, is the most environmentally positive of crops, one that actually leaves the soil in improved condition. Hemp grows tall and thick, shading and mulching the ground while its deep taproots break up and aerate the soil. This contributes to healthy microbial life and nutrient content in the soil, and the shading eliminates competing weeds. It is also naturally resistant to most insects, molds, and other pests.
http://www.squidoo.com/hemp_Clothing_Bags_Accessories

Most certainly this is not the first post on this. There have been many discussions on IS.
Just put cannabis in the search engine and you will find some other good links and discussions. For what ever reason the link I added earlier keeps changing and not giving search results...anyways
I finally figured out how to do a search here

I guess the last thing I want to add is to use discretion with your source
How to Tell if Your Weed is Laced *Guide*

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thee have been many threads asking if their weed was laced. I decided to make a short guide to explain the common question about the effects and side effects of laced weed.

Why would anyone lace Marijuana?

These are in order from most plausible to least possible reasons.

-To sell their weed at higher prices, claiming its more potent
-To get you addicted
-To .... with you
-By accident
-To experiment on you

Other drugs are more expensive then Marijuana, why would my deal ever do this?

For example a bag of heroin is .1g in my area and is worth about 10$. A gram of dank is around 15-20$. Lets say the dealer has some low mid grade marijuana. 1g of mids go for 5$ or so around here, so if he laced 1g of mids with a bag of heroin and sold it as dank at 20$ he would be making profit.

The marijuana with laced with heroin will still give a more intense high then any dank to user with no opiate tolerance. Even .02g of smoked heroin can produce base line or mild effects which can be confused with really strong weed.

What are some common things Marijuana is laced with?

-Heroin
-Meth
-PCP

If you purchase blunts or joints they may also contain MDMA or Crack.

What are the effects and side effects of some of these drugs?

Heroin
-Numbness in parts of your body
-Warmth or change in body temperature
-Strong feelings of euphoria
-Loosing feeling in parts of your body
-Decrease in abillity to feel pain

Side Effects
-Organ damage and or failure
-Suppression of the respiratory system-Brain Damage
-Death

Meth
-Euphoria
-Feelings of hyperactivity
-Restlessness
-Inability to sleep

Side Effects
-Brain Damage
-Seizures
-Heart Failure
-Heart Attack

PCP
-Disorientation
-Confusion
-Inability to gather your thoughts
-Minor hallucinations
-Anger

Side Effects
-Brain Damage
-Suicidal tendencies
-Stroke
-Hypertension

Is there anything else to watch out for?

Recently there has been a very dangerous chemical compound going around which has been found in marijuana. This compound is Tetrahydrocannabinol. In 2008 alone this chemical was responsible for over 24,000 deaths in the US alone.

Some symptoms include:


•nausea
•coughing, asthma, upper respiratory problems
•difficulty with short term memory
•racing heart, agitation, feeling tense
•mild to severe anxiety
•panic attacks in sensitive users
•headaches
•dizziness, confusion
•lightheadedness or fainting (in cases of lowered blood pressure)
•paranoid & anxious thoughts more frequent
•possible psychological dependence
•clumsiness, loss of coordination
•can precipitate or exacerbate latent or existing mental disorders

What do I do if my Marijuana is laced?

You know more about yourself then anyone else does. Nearly 50% of all weed is laced these days, you do not want to risk your life just to get high for a few hours. Make the right choice.

http://forum.grasscity.com/apprentic...d-*guide*.html


Hope all the links still work :D

xxoo

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integrally eclectic bohemian


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 Post subject: Re: Cannabis and the native people, where do you stand?
 Post Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 5:24 am 
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Chieftan
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Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 5:26 am
Posts: 691
Location: Arkansas
Nation: Houma
Cannabis - Robs people of the will to work, they begin to worry more about where the next doobie is coming from than whether they can care for their families.

Children go hungry, people lose their homes, folks end up on welfare, and worse.

More than once I've seen the results of the scars inflicted on children "rented out" for a bag of weed.

How is that good in any way?

Justify something like that, and then I'll listen.

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 Post subject: Re: Cannabis and the native people, where do you stand?
 Post Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 8:31 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:40 pm
Posts: 27
Nation: None
I have many chronic conditions for which pot is supposed to be greatly beneficial. I will never use pot to medicate myself, just as I don't use medication (except in acute situations which is not the issue here) because I instead work hard to change my lifestyle, habits, and improve my body from the inside out. Over my lifetime, meeting other people who share the same medical problems as I do, I have seen too many times people doping themselves up (on legal or illegal substances) and not addressing the underlying issues. Of course, you have so called "healthy" people nowdays also severely neglecting their health and not paying attention.

I am studying to become a doctor and while I don't think smoking pot is morally wrong, I would not reccommend is as a regular treatment for my patients. There are some cases where it might be warranted, but the energy and desire to FIGHT and LIVE is CRUCIAL in healing. I cannot stress that enough.

As far as the legal debate goes, if alcohol is sold and consumed regularly, I don't see the difference with cannabis. I am the child of two alcoholics who suffered severe abuse at their hands and you know what, I would rather they had been pot heads. Our rent never got paid anyway, we were always starving and homeless. Maybe I wouldn't have been beaten as often? Who knows? Also, legalizing pot would allow people to buy it from a store shelf instead of buying it from dealers who sneak other drugs in there with it.

Basically, I am not morally opposed to pot, though I personally stay far far away (as with most other drugs, legal or illegal). As a student of TCM, I cannot deny that every herb has its use, including pot. But as stated before by another member here, pot eats away at motivation, which is a cornerstone of healing. But there are some exceptional cases where it would be warranted and suitable. I guess I don't like this image as pot being a "catch all" treatment. There is no such substance in the world. Everything has its place. I really don't pay attention to pot-heads who just want it legalized so they can smoke it 24/7 worry free.

Oh, and people should NOT be going to work or doing anything important under the influence, just as you would not go to work drunk.

As someone else stated, all medications should be treated with respect.

It's a touchy subject, but both sides need to keep an open mind, including those FOR legalization.


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 Post subject: Re: Cannabis and the native people, where do you stand?
 Post Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:29 am 
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Warrior
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Posts: 178
Nation: treaty three
I am not advocating for or against. As I said it is a choice each must make, although used recreationally or medicinally are 2 separate issues. Not long ago I was reading where someone was a growin it for medicinal purposes with a license and usin rat poison to keep away the rodents from the crop.....ummm....kind of defeats the purpose. Anyways....more important battles to fight... :D

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 Post subject: Re: Cannabis and the native people, where do you stand?
 Post Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:09 am 
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Oh, my post wasn't directed at anyone in particular, just my general reaction to everything said so far. :)

Agreed, many more important battles to fight!


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 Post subject: Re: Cannabis and the native people, where do you stand?
 Post Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 10:08 pm 
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Great Eldar Shaman
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i read a story years ago it went like this

there was a guy adorned with many charms, medicine bags, feathers and assorted other items and potions.

another guy was talking with another guy from a distance asking why is so and so wearing all those different items.

the guy said he was a medicine man in training and had not yet figured out what was medicine and what wasn't.

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 Post subject: Re: Cannabis and the native people, where do you stand?
 Post Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:20 am 
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Ranked Warrior
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Location: Okanagan Territory
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It seems that the negative side effects attributed to pot smoking, are actually the side effects of being addicted to ANYTHING. If you are hooked on shopping, gambling, shoes, WHATEVER, your will to work and function will be decreased, your children will suffer, and life will start nose diving. Why we choose to single out weed, seems a bit of a desperate thing...

MODERATION!

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One does not sell the earth upon which we walk!

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 Post subject: Re: Cannabis and the native people, where do you stand?
 Post Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 1:10 pm 
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Ranked Warrior
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Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2006 6:45 am
Posts: 275
Location: San Antonio, TX
Smee wrote:
Cannabis - Robs people of the will to work, they begin to worry more about where the next doobie is coming from than whether they can care for their families.

Children go hungry, people lose their homes, folks end up on welfare, and worse.

More than once I've seen the results of the scars inflicted on children "rented out" for a bag of weed.

How is that good in any way?

Justify something like that, and then I'll listen.


Smee, I think I've agreed with almost everything you've said in this thread. I've had very similar experiences. I tried it myself many years ago - not sure how often, probably less than ten occasions. I never found it enjoyable. That magical promised euphoria never came, and the final time it made me want to punch people's faces, so that was it for me, and that is why I tend to be very sceptical when people evangelise in regard to this plant.

But that said, I believe there is a strong case for medical use (as an option at least), and other uses (hemp as an alternative to cotton and so on), and if nothing else legalisation at least wipes out all the problems that come with a black market, so I suppose I'm for but with serious reservations - not sure. It's a tough one.

This will sound terrible, but in 47 years I have met precisely one single pothead who comes to mind who ever had anything interesting to say, with whom I ever felt I had any common ground, and with whom I could stand to be in the same room. This seems a very poor average, but then I suppose everyone is different. I'm not sure if someone who smokes themselves into thinking Lord of the Rings was probably a documentary is necessarily any worse than yer hardcore boozehound.

Just thinking out loud here.

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"For as long as the world shall endure, the honour and the glory of Mexico-Tenochtitlan must never be forgotten."
- Chimalpahin Quautlehuanitzin


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 Post subject: Re: Cannabis and the native people, where do you stand?
 Post Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 6:18 am 
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Chieftan

Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2010 6:58 pm
Posts: 707
Location: Ottawa, Canada
I feel that responsible use of natural drugs can open the mind and allow for access to deeper feelings and realizations.
It seems that this frightens a lot of people.
I think that's too bad.


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 Post subject: Re: Cannabis and the native people, where do you stand?
 Post Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 7:46 am 
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Ranked Warrior
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Location: Okanagan Territory
Nation: Gitxsan
Ashashane wrote:
I feel that responsible use of natural drugs can open the mind and allow for access to deeper feelings and realizations.
It seems that this frightens a lot of people.
I think that's too bad.


the key word is RESPONSIBLE... Im totally with you on this.. :D

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One does not sell the earth upon which we walk!

...Crazy Horse


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 Post subject: Re: Cannabis and the native people, where do you stand?
 Post Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 10:27 am 
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Warrior
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Nation: treaty three
and the debates continue

http://www.growmedical420.com/the-end-of-pot-panic/

:D

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 Post subject: Re: Cannabis and the native people, where do you stand?
 Post Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 3:31 pm 
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Ranked Warrior
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Posts: 275
Location: San Antonio, TX
Ashashane wrote:
I feel that responsible use of natural drugs can open the mind and allow for access to deeper feelings and realizations.
It seems that this frightens a lot of people.
I think that's too bad.


To which people might you be referring here, if you don't mind my asking? :lol:

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"For as long as the world shall endure, the honour and the glory of Mexico-Tenochtitlan must never be forgotten."
- Chimalpahin Quautlehuanitzin


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 Post subject: Re: Cannabis and the native people, where do you stand?
 Post Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 3:44 am 
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Chieftan

Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2010 6:58 pm
Posts: 707
Location: Ottawa, Canada
War Arrow wrote:
To which people might you be referring here, if you don't mind my asking? :lol:


I think you're mostly kidding but it's a legit question.
I have yet to come across an opinion against marijuana or against any unconventional lifestyle choice that isn't fear based.
I often think that the ones firmly in the against camp are the ones who need a hit of the medicinal herb to help them contemplate the subject.


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