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 Post subject: Cannabis and the native people, where do you stand?
 Post Posted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:19 pm 
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Location: Seattle
Nation: Lakota Sioux
I'm a medical cannabis activist in Seattle, I ultimately believe cannabis should be treated like coffee or sugar and be free to those than wish to imbibe it.

My cannabis education has been extensive and I've come to understand that cannabis isn't a drug, it's a healing plant. It's an herb than can be used to improve the body, mind, and spirit. Just as sage, tobacco, eucalyptus, and many other natural plants do.

Due to many new scientific studies we as a people are coming to understand that the tangible health benefits of the compounds found in this plant are undeniable. Cancer fighting properties, can be used to get people off heroin and other drugs(aids in recovery from addiction), relieves symptoms of AIDS, HIV, Arthritis, Tremor diseases, Stomach ailments, cancer treatment recovery, Alzheimer, depression, PTSD, anxiety, insomnia, appetite issues, the list goes on and it is not even close to complete.

What I am wondering and hoping that you will all chime in on, is how do You as a native feel about cannabis? How does your community feel about it?

Thank you in advance to anyone willing to share your feelings on this issue.


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 Post subject: Re: Cannabis and the native people, where do you stand?
 Post Posted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 6:10 pm 
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Chieftan
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Location: Arkansas
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Sorry, but this discussion always makes me think of this video ...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHzdsFiBbFc[/youtube]

Seen too many good workers turn into worthless lazy "heads" in my lifetime.

I see absolutely no good in it myself. No better than any other mind altering substance.

"A little more sleep, a little more slumbering, a little more folding of the hands in lying down, and your poverty will certainly come just like some rover, and your want like an armed man" - Proverbs 6:10, 11

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 Post subject: Re: Cannabis and the native people, where do you stand?
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 10:13 am 
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Location: Houston, Texas
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Having lived through the 60's and 70's my studies of "weed" isn't academic, but real. It can be used for good medical reasons. Yet, those people that really need it, like some cancer patients are not all that many. It is a healing plant, like a good Scotch is a healing drink. If used wisely it can be ok, but people don't, they smoke all the time. It is great for the candy bar business, but they turn into lazy bums. True, it is A LOT better than a drunk, and real drugs, but don't pass it off as some sort of healing, old Indian plant. The old timers did not smoke weed, it wasn't in north America until the white guy showed up.
It all comes down to money. In Texas the state makes money by the prosecution for the possession, while Colorado makes money off the taxes on the sale. So long as the state gets it's cut, they don't care.
I am older and wiser now, and I remember all the hippy crap about weed. When high, record yourself then later listen to the silly stuff you say, that at the time sounded brilliant. It can be funny. Weed is Weed, but please don't mix it in with Native Americans.


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 Post subject: Re: Cannabis and the native people, where do you stand?
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 12:31 pm 
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I'm not a knowledge keeper or healer, but if it's used medicinally then the medicine should be respected as such. The only other thing I could add is that one shouldn't abuse the environment nor the gifts it provides. There's consequences to misusing anything.


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 Post subject: Re: Cannabis and the native people, where do you stand?
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 4:10 pm 
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Smee wrote:
Sorry, but this discussion always makes me think of this video ...

Seen too many good workers turn into worthless lazy "heads" in my lifetime.

I see absolutely no good in it myself. No better than any other mind altering substance.

"A little more sleep, a little more slumbering, a little more folding of the hands in lying down, and your poverty will certainly come just like some rover, and your want like an armed man" - Proverbs 6:10, 11


Thank you for responding, I too wondered why some people lose themselves in cannabis, but knew that not all do, because I didn't and I know many people who haven't. We all work, live normal lives, etc.
This led me to ask, is cannabis the problem or are we blaming cannabis, alcohol, etc when the true problem lies in the individual. People abuse drugs generally because they are unhappy, without hope, oppressed, violated, profiled, have mental health issues, and poverty. These people are using substances to bury they're pain, this is not the fault of the substances, they are just copping mechanisms people abuse to deal with a life not within they're control.

I wonder if you would consider viewing those that abuse cannabis as needing health treatment for addiction issues. So the true issues in they're lives can be addressed. And Seeing those that use cannabis medically(such as for seizures) as choosing an all natural medication instead of a prescription. And finally seeing those that use cannabis recreationally but responsibly as just enjoying a plant given to them by Wakan Tanka instead of a drink given to them by the white man?


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 Post subject: Re: Cannabis and the native people, where do you stand?
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 4:25 pm 
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halbrumbaugh wrote:
Having lived through the 60's and 70's my studies of "weed" isn't academic, but real. It can be used for good medical reasons. Yet, those people that really need it, like some cancer patients are not all that many. It is a healing plant, like a good Scotch is a healing drink. If used wisely it can be ok, but people don't, they smoke all the time. It is great for the candy bar business, but they turn into lazy bums. True, it is A LOT better than a drunk, and real drugs, but don't pass it off as some sort of healing, old Indian plant. The old timers did not smoke weed, it wasn't in north America until the white guy showed up.
It all comes down to money. In Texas the state makes money by the prosecution for the possession, while Colorado makes money off the taxes on the sale. So long as the state gets it's cut, they don't care.
I am older and wiser now, and I remember all the hippy crap about weed. When high, record yourself then later listen to the silly stuff you say, that at the time sounded brilliant. It can be funny.


Thank you for responding.
I have to say I don't need to record myself while high, every post I have added to this forum occurred while high. When you use cannabis medically, that faze of giggly euphoria doesn't occur. I say this only because indicating that everyone that smokes cannabis is a bumbling idiot just isn't factual. That behavior is present for some recreational users but there are true medical benefits and regular use of cannabis doesn't produce "the hippy crap" you are describing.

halbrumbaugh wrote:
Weed is Weed, but please don't mix it in with Native Americans.


I wasn't raised with my people, but having a healthy relationship with nature and living off the land is what my spirit tells me my native culture is all about. Using cannabis instead of a man made medications IS using what mother earth has provided to us as people to heal our bodies and souls.
How can a part of nature(cannabis) Not be mixed with Native Americans?


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 Post subject: Re: Cannabis and the native people, where do you stand?
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 5:00 pm 
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Location: Arkansas
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firephynix wrote:
Thank you for responding, I too wondered why some people lose themselves in cannabis, but knew that not all do, because I didn't and I know many people who haven't.


People lose themselves in it for the same reason as they lose themselves in alcohol. Simply, they are irresponsible and want to blame their problems on others when it is their own chemically altered thinking that brings them to poverty. True, some don't end up in a back alley, but let's be honest: Those persons usually were wealthy before the herbs became the driving force in their lives.

Just as with those who are functional illiterates, some will succeed in spite of - rather than because of - their crutch. Some employers are unwilling to release employees who, once they become heads, lose productivity. I work for such a man. He sees his employees as friends rather than employees. They know it and take advantage of it.

firephynix wrote:
We all work, live normal lives, etc.


I can't begin to tell you how hard Ray and Bobby said they worked, but not a damned thing ever got done. They spent all their time looking for the next fix ... then they started selling out of the company truck.

Despite the added income (provided they weren't too high to keep track of the money exchanges), they became deeper and deeper in debt to the company. We will allow employees to buy at cost and pay on time, and will even loan money when they are in a bind. We lost big time when we had to fire them.

BTW, don't believe the lie that marijuana always makes you mellow. When they didn't have a smoke, they would get downright ugly with our customers.

firephynix wrote:
This led me to ask, is cannabis the problem or are we blaming cannabis, alcohol, etc when the true problem lies in the individual. People abuse drugs generally because they are unhappy, without hope, oppressed, violated, profiled, have mental health issues, and poverty. These people are using substances to bury they're pain, this is not the fault of the substances, they are just copping mechanisms people abuse to deal with a life not within they're control.

I wonder if you would consider viewing those that abuse cannabis as needing health treatment for addiction issues. So the true issues in they're lives can be addressed. And Seeing those that use cannabis medically(such as for seizures) as choosing an all natural medication instead of a prescription. And finally seeing those that use cannabis recreationally but responsibly as just enjoying a plant given to them by Wakan Tanka instead of a drink given to them by the white man?


I'll be honest, it just sounds like there is a wish to get others to join the pro cannabis movement.

Not interested in becoming worthless to myself. Yeah, I know how they get from time to time. Just as with any other mind altering substance, it is what it is.

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 Post subject: Re: Cannabis and the native people, where do you stand?
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 5:58 pm 
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Smee wrote:
BTW, don't believe the lie that marijuana always makes you mellow. When they didn't have a smoke, they would get downright ugly with our customers.


You kind of made my point with this one, if they were smoking cannabis, they would have provided better customer service. Though it sounds like these two people would have been taking advantage of anyone and any situation, I don't see how cannabis is to blame. Other than, if these two people could grow they're own cannabis in they're back yard for personal use they wouldn't need to scam anyone for it.


Smee wrote:
I'll be honest, it just sounds like there is a wish to get others to join the pro cannabis movement.

Not interested in becoming worthless to myself. Yeah, I know how they get from time to time. Just as with any other mind altering substance, it is what it is.


Fair enough, though I'm not really looking to recruit anyone, I am looking to engage people in serious dialog about this and many other topics. To be fair that is what forum's like this are for.


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 Post subject: Re: Cannabis and the native people, where do you stand?
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 6:30 pm 
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firephynix wrote:
You kind of made my point with this one, if they were smoking cannabis, they would have provided better customer service. Though it sounds like these two people would have been taking advantage of anyone and any situation, I don't see how cannabis is to blame. Other than, if these two people could grow they're own cannabis in they're back yard for personal use they wouldn't need to scam anyone for it.


No, when they were smoking cannabis, they wouldn't do a damned thing except complain that we worked them too hard.

Now, when a 30 year old man in good health can't keep up with a 50+ year old man with diabetes and a heart condition, it is nothing but lazy. Lack of motivation.

For evidence of the silliness caused by cannabis, look at the ID10Ts protesting at McDonalds demanding $15/hr. You can't tell me people get that stoopid without help.

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 Post subject: Re: Cannabis and the native people, where do you stand?
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 6:56 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 26, 2009 9:15 pm
Posts: 1211
Location: Studio City, CA
Hello All,

This topic hits close to home right now. Yes, people who really do need medical marijuana should be able to use it. And I emphasize the phrase "really do need." There are way too many people who abuse it, and I have witnessed this. My ex-boy friend has a prescription for it due to spinal arthritis. He smokes way more than he should and shares it with people who don't need it. My close dear friend has a similar condition and won't touch it. He strengthens his back by working out, and his back condition has improved tremendously by doing so. My ex boyfriend's back never got better while we were still together. I've also seen people just sit around all day doing nothing but discussing where to get the best weed. Their whole day was spent talking about it, going to get it, and sifting through it once they got it while saying over and over again what good weed it was. I knew a guy who went out to measure his marijuana plant everyday. He would get excited every time the plant grew an inch or so. His whole life was about smoking pot. The abuse of marijuana hurts those people who do use it responsibly. There are people who only smoke it when they really need it.

The reason this all hits home right now is that I had to call the police to come remove my nephew the day before yesterday. My nephew broke into my home. Drug addiction is so painful for the families as well as the ones addicted. My nephew was a brilliant and wonderful caring boy while he was growing up until he hit his teen years. He spent time in Fulsom Prison for selling and using meth. When he got out, he seemed to have turned his life around. He took responsibility for all his actions instead of blaming other people. He was so good to his fiancee and their children. Now he's back on the meth again so his fiancee had to kick him out. I don't think any of you can know how devastating this is to his fiancee, their children, my brother-his father, and all the family. People can be addicted to any substance.

Walk In Balance,
Deer


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 Post subject: Re: Cannabis and the native people, where do you stand?
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 7:08 pm 
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Smee wrote:
No, when they were smoking cannabis, they wouldn't do a damned thing except complain that we worked them too hard.
Now, when a 30 year old man in good health can't keep up with a 50+ year old man with diabetes and a heart condition, it is nothing but lazy. Lack of motivation.


That is an altogether different statement. but again you seem to think that cannabis is to blame for the crappy work ethic of these two individuals. That's your right, but I respectfully disagree. As for the laziness and lack of motivation I completely agree, I just think the source is not cannabis, it's dissatisfaction with the way the world works and how we are all forced to live. If we address the true problems and give people hope and real freedom, people wont have a reason to abuse drugs.

you previously stated
Smee wrote:
BTW, don't believe the lie that marijuana always makes you mellow. When they didn't have a smoke, they would get downright ugly with our customers.

which would indicate if they had smoked they would have been nicer, I was simply pointing out that your statement made my point for me. If you mistyped and meant something different, than I apologize.

Smee wrote:
For evidence of the silliness caused by cannabis, look at the ID10Ts protesting at McDonalds demanding $15/hr. You can't tell me people get that stoopid without help.


What do cannabis and under paid workers at McDonald's have to do with each other?!?
And I don't think people fighting for a livable wage is stupid whatsoever, I think letting the government dupe you into accepting a sub livable wage is stupid personally.

As for believing the misinformation about cannabis that the white man has been conspiring to spread since the 30's. I guess we can just agree to disagree on benefits of most healing plant I have ever encountered.


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 Post subject: Re: Cannabis and the native people, where do you stand?
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 9:29 pm 
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firephynix wrote:
I was simply pointing out that your statement made my point for me. If you mistyped and meant something different, than I apologize.


So, let's see what you wrote again:

firephynix wrote:
You kind of made my point with this one, if they were smoking cannabis, they would have provided better customer service.


Your logic is showing a degraded state already. Customer service (we deliver furniture) isn't just being able to smile. It means doing a job safely and without damaging the customer's property.

Two deliveries by these pot heads cost us many times more than we made. Top of the line upright washer and dryer had to be given away because they were too lazy to lift them while sliding across the customer's floor. Sold the units to customer for about $2,500, paid over $2,000 to repair the flooring in the customer's home.

Next day, sold a $500 television console (a cabinet on which you place a customer's television), they rip the carpet, cost us twice what we sold the cabinet for.

Yeah, great freakin customer service. It always makes customers happy when you destroy their property.

Pot heads are deadbeats and losers. If there's a perceived legitimate reason for its medicinal use, I would wager there are other medications that will provide better pain relief without having to be too high to have cogent thought.

Once again, you're trying to justify legalizing pot, you're just trying to justify it by playing the medical marijuana game. You admitted you're chemically altered while posting here.

It should not be allowed unless there is no alternative ... but there are hundreds of alternatives for pain, so the only reason for its use is the intoxicating properties, not the pain relief.

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 Post subject: Re: Cannabis and the native people, where do you stand?
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 9:38 pm 
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firephynix wrote:
What do cannabis and under paid workers at McDonald's have to do with each other?!?
And I don't think people fighting for a livable wage is stupid whatsoever, I think letting the government dupe you into accepting a sub livable wage is stupid personally.


Because it makes them stupid. You cannot pay workers more than you make! I have 20 years experience and teach others about my line of work for our company. I can't find anyone to replace me, and the delivery guys (entry level position) feel they should earn more than me because, even though my work has kept their paychecks covered, I work in an office.

They don't possess the reasoning power to understand that you start at the bottom and PROVE YOURSELF before you start making decent money.

firephynix wrote:
As for believing the misinformation about cannabis that the white man has been conspiring to spread since the 30's. I guess we can just agree to disagree on benefits of most healing plant I have ever encountered.


BULL SCAT!!! just more whinning because you can't sit on your back porch and smoke pot all day.

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 Post subject: Re: Cannabis and the native people, where do you stand?
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 4:17 am 
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Hi Smee,

The use of medical marijuana was originally, I believe, confined to people who have glaucoma. It relieves the pressure in their eyes. I met one of the first persons to have a legal prescription for medical marijuana due to his glaucoma. He was far from being a pot head. He was the teacher of the CPR class I attended. I still say, though, that it is being abused by way too many people.

Walk In Balance,
Deer


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 Post subject: Re: Cannabis and the native people, where do you stand?
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 5:40 am 
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Theresa13 wrote:
Hi Smee,

The use of medical marijuana was originally, I believe, confined to people who have glaucoma. It relieves the pressure in their eyes. I met one of the first persons to have a legal prescription for medical marijuana due to his glaucoma. He was far from being a pot head. He was the teacher of the CPR class I attended. I still say, though, that it is being abused by way too many people.

Walk In Balance,
Deer


Thank you for the information Theresa.

I have no problems with the persons who LEGITIMATELY need such a drug, I just wonder if there is a way to deliver the particular chemical that relieves the pressure without one having to smoke it.

We can do lots of stuff today that we couldn't just 5 years ago, and I bet finding a way to make this work without getting high is one of them. Problem is, the folks who just want to smoke pot wouldn't take it.

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