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 Post subject: Complete Assimilation ?
 Post Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:11 pm 
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Junior Tribe Warrior

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Location: By the creek
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With the exception of the Mississippian’s attempt at civilization, before the coming of Europeans, most tribes in what is now America lived pretty much as they did for thousands of years. Agriculture, pottery, the bow and more sturdy dwellings being the only domestic advancements. Aside from small scale tribal warfare, or raiding, petty greed, lust and any other aspects of human nature, Indians pretty much lived in balance with nature, a lifestyle which served them well enough to survive their migration onto this continent up until first contact with the Europeans.

Of course with the Europeans came changes and now we survive by adapting to these changes in ever changing times. Regardless of assumptions that all Indians would eventually die out, be completely absorbed, or assimilated into American mainstream society, we still remain.

Still there are those who would carry on such attempts to have us absorbed, or assimilated, or else become their concept of what we should be. Reinvented into someone else’s image if you will.

Have we not assimilated enough and continue to adapt in our own way to the changes that others bring about ?

What will those who strive to have us submerged in the melting pot gain and what will we lose by obliging ?

Perhaps we can speak of this in a good and unrepressed way.

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 Post subject: Re: Complete Assimilation ?
 Post Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 2:35 am 
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viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2790&p=12206#p12206

well sis i will go into my next part of my book and bring forth some points on why and how come "they" colonial needs us to assimilate. my tupa once stated you can't condition a man to live with fins under water no more then you can get a fish to walk in mans moccasins. but i guess the colonial knows best for us lol....

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 Post subject: Re: Complete Assimilation ?
 Post Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 4:40 am 
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Junior Tribe Warrior

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pwolikin wrote:
http://www.firstnations.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2790&p=12206#p12206

well sis i will go into my next part of my book and bring forth some points on why and how come "they" colonial needs us to assimilate. my tupa once stated you can't condition a man to live with fins under water no more then you can get a fish to walk in mans moccasins. but i guess the colonial knows best for us lol....



Sis ? Do you feel comfortable in calling a Shawnee man that ?

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 Post subject: Re: Complete Assimilation ?
 Post Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 6:02 am 
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Chieftan

Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2010 6:58 pm
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Location: Ottawa, Canada
Before first contact: I'll call that purity of human nature.
After contact, I'll call that the quest for domination of human nature.
My whole life has been that story, and the dominating force came from people I loved and trusted who believed it was the correct way to do things. I wanted to believe too, but I never did. Still, I tried.

It didn't break my spirit.

It was an experience, I learned things. Now I want to learn without those dominating ideas of the correct way to live.
It might take the rest of my life to do that, but it's an experience and so far I'm enjoying it much more than the first half of my life.


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 Post subject: Re: Complete Assimilation ?
 Post Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 7:05 am 
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Junior Tribe Warrior

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Ashashane wrote:
Before first contact: I'll call that purity of human nature.
After contact, I'll call that the quest for domination of human nature.
My whole life has been that story, and the dominating force came from people I loved and trusted who believed it was the correct way to do things. I wanted to believe too, but I never did. Still, I tried.

It didn't break my spirit.

It was an experience, I learned things. Now I want to learn without those dominating ideas of the correct way to live.
It might take the rest of my life to do that, but it's an experience and so far I'm enjoying it much more than the first half of my life.


What is attempted to be taken away and what we still retain. do you suppose the drive to assimilate Indians has something to do with vast tracts of reservation land and those still having a desire to expand thus taking that land away ?

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 Post subject: Re: Complete Assimilation ?
 Post Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 8:13 am 
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Pellethie wrote:

Sis ? Do you feel comfortable in calling a Shawnee man that ?

I see i once again opened my mouth before i opened my eyes to see in this new imagery who it is i talk to... my apologies i shall listen before i open my mouth again in addressing someone. That is my weakness , i will not let it happen again.

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 Post subject: Re: Complete Assimilation ?
 Post Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:06 am 
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Junior Tribe Warrior

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pwolikin wrote:
Pellethie wrote:

Sis ? Do you feel comfortable in calling a Shawnee man that ?

I see i once again opened my mouth before i opened my eyes to see in this new imagery who it is i talk to... my apologies i shall listen before i open my mouth again in addressing someone. That is my weakness , i will not let it happen again.


No problem. Perhaps you didn't know.

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 Post subject: Re: Complete Assimilation ?
 Post Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:23 am 
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pwolikin wrote:
my tupa once stated you can't condition a man to live with fins under water no more then you can get a fish to walk in mans moccasins.

when i refer to such i should also add i refer to the physical not the spiritual. again english sometime catches me when i translate to this trickery language. for my energy is not different to that of my brother porcupine.

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 Post subject: Re: Complete Assimilation ?
 Post Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:24 pm 
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Junior Tribe Warrior

Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2011 12:08 pm
Posts: 127
Location: By the creek
Nation: Shawano
pwolikin wrote:
pwolikin wrote:
my tupa once stated you can't condition a man to live with fins under water no more then you can get a fish to walk in mans moccasins.

when i refer to such i should also add i refer to the physical not the spiritual. again english sometime catches me when i translate to this trickery language. for my energy is not different to that of my brother porcupine.


A good brother to have, but not to sit on.

This assimilation process still goes on, but in a more clever manner. One of my cousins blames a part of this on what she calls 'Uncle Tomahawks', Indians who want to assimilate into white American mainstream society, or else cater to it's wishes. I imagine there are those who do not want Indians to receive annuities or be allowed huge tracts of reservation land to live upon when such a land hunger still exists among those who see the land as private property to be sold, bought and owned like some commodity. That is what remains after the Dawes General Allotment Act of 1887. A terrible policy that took over 90 million acres of reservation land and meant to assimilate Indians turning them into imitation white rural small farmers.

Some would profit from complete Indian assimilation, government officials who could put annuity funds into something else and real estate tycoons who have other ideas for reservation land.

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 Post subject: Re: Complete Assimilation ?
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:25 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2010 6:58 pm
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Location: Ottawa, Canada
Pellethie wrote:
What is attempted to be taken away and what we still retain. do you suppose the drive to assimilate Indians has something to do with vast tracts of reservation land and those still having a desire to expand thus taking that land away ?



Yes, I do.
The mentality to secure resources has been passed down generation to generation.
One side believes it should be used now.
One side says it should be protected.
Now there are two sides and they fight, using dishonorable tactics and whatever else it takes for their side to "win".
Neither side understands the other. Neither side bothers to try to understand, because they think they are right, and nobody likes to be wrong about something they believed in their whole life. It hurts to find out you've been lied to.
That's what saddens me.


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 Post subject: Re: Complete Assimilation ?
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:39 am 
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Junior Tribe Warrior

Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2011 12:08 pm
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Location: By the creek
Nation: Shawano
Ashashane wrote:
Pellethie wrote:
What is attempted to be taken away and what we still retain. do you suppose the drive to assimilate Indians has something to do with vast tracts of reservation land and those still having a desire to expand thus taking that land away ?



Yes, I do.
The mentality to secure resources has been passed down generation to generation.
One side believes it should be used now.
One side says it should be protected.
Now there are two sides and they fight, using dishonorable tactics and whatever else it takes for their side to "win".
Neither side understands the other. Neither side bothers to try to understand, because they think they are right, and nobody likes to be wrong about something they believed in their whole life. It hurts to find out you've been lied to.
That's what saddens me.


In ancient times Indians suffered through other hard times, but I've heard from story tellers, people just went underground and waited these events out. One side waits while the other side divides in more sides only to fall upon each other.

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 Post subject: Re: Complete Assimilation ?
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:11 am 
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Junior Tribe Warrior

Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2011 12:08 pm
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Location: By the creek
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More than likely those early days of first contact and attempt to cohabitate with tribes along the Atlantic coast were as not as negatively bias as most modern people assume. Instead of blood thirsty savages, the early English settlers perceived Indians as very efficient farmers, hunters and food gatherers, but on the same note, thought they should be washed up, dressed in a more prudent manner, taught English, educated, and accept Christianity as their religion. The English assumed that Indians would welcome such a lifestyle change and be thankful for deliverance from their primitive childlike ignorance that Satan tends to preys upon.

Aside from a few shallow written accounts of a culture and spirituality, they really didn’t understand, most of the early colonist saw the Indians as god’s wayward children, that had yet to know god’s word.

Indians did not think much of English colonial social values and many did not want to understand as they were disgusted with the greed associated with capitalism and the plight of the colonial poor who often came begging food from neighboring tribes, some going native themselves. Many tribes who were still in a position of power, refused conversion to Christianity as it would compromise their long existing traditions and humanly pursuits.

As the colonial populations grew, so did their need for more land and resources. The colonists began looking at their Indian neighbors in a different perspective, especially the ones who had not adopted colonial culture or converted to Christianity. Now they were viewed as savage devil worshippers who were undeserving of anything but removal, containment or death unless they willingly cede their homelands away, be resettled upon small, less desirable locations and accept the Christian god as their own.

Those tribes who resisted were violently set upon, along the Atlantic coast as well as the ever expanding frontier, tribe after tribe were defeated. Those not killed outright, or fled were enslaved, many sent to the West Indies to work on plantations. Only those tribes who submitted and converted were allowed to survive in a poor condition.

Ravaged by disease and war, desperate to survive, it’s not all that surprising many Indians gave up their animistic beliefs and began to imagine concepts of a supreme master of life, single great spirit, or the Christian god. Of course beliefs were blended as well.

Trade had a lot to do with both cultural and spiritual change amongst the tribes. With the introduction of European goods into an advanced stone age culture came aspects of the European mindset. Stone knapping became almost forgotten in favor of steel tools, weapons and lead rifle balls. People were now wearing articles of clothing made from colonial cloth. They used metal utensils, tools and farming implements, hunting and making war with trade rifles. I can imagine some Lenape, Odawa, Catawba, Cherokee or even a Shawnee of 1750 appreciating such colonial goods and pondering deeply upon a universal great spirit, comparable with the white man’s god, who bestowed the wisdom to these Europeans, thus allowing them to invent such wonderful effective items, but on the same note, entertaining thoughts of these colonials as having been swayed from ’the great spirit’s path into the sin they often preached against. By the mid 18th century many tribes whose cultures had been impacted by the colonists begin speaking more in terms of a master of life or great spirit as a deity. This concept would spread across the Mississippi onto the plains and beyond after the American Revolution and during Manifest Destiny.

Beliefs changed from various forms of primitive animism into pantheons of lesser spirits ruled by a supreme male 'great spirit' or lumped together as a single deity or else they were blended with or completely substituted by Christianity.

No matter the new way we went, those forks in our paths took us away from lifestyles that had served us well for thousands of years before the first European contact and mention of god.

No we can’t expect to stay as we were 12000 years ago as paths often stretch long and fork off, but some of us do not want to be upon seemingly good paths that eventually lead to bad places.

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 Post subject: Re: Complete Assimilation ?
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 5:42 am 
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Pellethie wrote:
Ashashane wrote:
Pellethie wrote:
In ancient times Indians suffered through other hard times, but I've heard from story tellers, people just went underground and waited these events out. One side waits while the other side divides in more sides only to fall upon each other.


Those sound like wise words, but the underground feels like a trap. It feels safe and secure until there are predators blocking the exits and they change shape but never leave.
Do those predators get so hungry they eat themselves? If so, what does the underground come up to find?
Do they find peace?
Or more fear?


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 Post subject: Re: Complete Assimilation ?
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 6:53 am 
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Pellethie wrote:
Ravaged by disease and war, desperate to survive, it’s not all that surprising many Indians gave up their animistic beliefs and began to imagine concepts of a supreme master of life, single great spirit, or the Christian god. Of course beliefs were blended as well.

You might want to define the way you are using, "animism" some of the more misguided, let's play NDN types might think that you mean it in the sense that we worshiped animals, and start calling themselves, BigWhiteSnowyEagle. Why don't anyone ever give themselves names like "littleworm?" just sayin...


Pellethie wrote:
I can imagine some Lenape, Odawa, Catawba, Cherokee or even a Shawnee of 1750 appreciating such colonial goods and pondering deeply upon a universal great spirit, comparable with the white man’s god, who bestowed the wisdom to these Europeans, thus allowing them to invent such wonderful effective items, but on the same note, entertaining thoughts of these colonials as having been swayed from ’the great spirit’s path into the sin they often preached against. By the mid 18th century many tribes whose cultures had been impacted by the colonists begin speaking more in terms of a master of life or great spirit as a deity. This concept would spread across the Mississippi onto the plains and beyond after the American Revolution and during Manifest Destiny.


Actually for the Cherokee, we already believed in ONE God, so, it was easy for us to accept the concept of the Christian faith, as it lined up with our pre-colonial belief. And we weren't the only ones who had a belief in a Single God. Your statements might be true for the Shawnee, but not the Cherokee or many of our neighboring tribes, then or today.

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 Post subject: Re: Complete Assimilation ?
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:14 am 
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Ashashane wrote:
Pellethie wrote:
In ancient times Indians suffered through other hard times, but I've heard from story tellers, people just went underground and waited these events out. One side waits while the other side divides in more sides only to fall upon each other.


Those sound like wise words, but the underground feels like a trap. It feels safe and secure until there are predators blocking the exits and they change shape but never leave.
Do those predators get so hungry they eat themselves? If so, what does the underground come up to find?
Do they find peace?
Or more fear?

funny this is talked of. for i have some spent years in the west kootenys researching what my tupa stated. "when the white man came a lot of my mothers people separated and some when into the hills of the ----------- and some went west to what is now called similkimeens ) now i know my tupa lived with relatives in what is now called "and that is where i will leave it" but in the west kootenys a forester talked to me in if i remeber right early ? that there was siteings of privative still roaming the hills.he seen one come to his campsite then disappear. the forester was if i remember right in his 80's or 90's my memory is good but short lol and he was a forester a lot of years earlier. when i talked to him he was apart of the Canadian action party. Now also my one gramps is family is from Arrow lakes so because of that i had to live there for a while to get to know the area, and i spent alot of my time in the mountains also on a side note there is a cave that has pictagraphs that trust me is hard to get to and find. The forester was a good man and hopefully i will have a chance to sit with him once again before he croaks. I use to guide before and i am a tracker so reading sign for me in most part is nothing yet nothing out of the ordinary did i see. sleeping in some spots in the kootenys though even i could feel presentce that no animal or human have ever made me feel like. I think they made a movie about such too in colorado if i am right. make reality look fiction? i guess if i was going to mask something i would laugh about it too.

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